I thought this was kind of funny, given your views on respawning (which I do understand, I assure you).
I've been playing with you occasionally on Fridays - not nearly as often as I'd like, but that's the way it goes - and it's been a lot of fun. But I've also started playing on weekends with a guy from my own timezone, so we can play in the evenings here (20:00 your time is 13:00 here, and that can be tough to do), and he's pretty much your exact opposite.
He's more of a run-and-gun kind of player, unconcerned about getting killed if he can take out some of the enemy, too. In one mission, he respawned 36 times! Heh, heh. But he's only 52, so he's just a kid yet.
OK, to be honest, that was an unusual kind of mission, and he got stuck respawning among enemy troops who just shot him immediately every time. (I had a lot of respawns that mission, too.) But I did think it was funny.
As it turns out, I'm kind of in the middle on this point. I think I'd prefer to play with revives, rather than respawns, and that's what both of us try to do on the weekends (but when we're just two people playing, it can be very hard to get to the other player's body to revive him or even drag him away, without getting shot yourself).
I'm just a newbie, anyway, so I'm not particularly hardcore - or even particular. I'm definitely not a run-and-gun kind of player, and I don't want to die in the game. But respawns don't really bother me, either, especially in moderation. So, as it turns out, I'm the lucky one, because I can really enjoy playing Arma 3 with both of you.
It can be quite a contrast, though.Â
Bill
The first aid system in Arma 3 sucks, it's way too easy.
In Arma 2, the default first aid system was a bit more like revive. You take enough damage (non-lethal, if it is enough to kill you you're dead) and you go into agony state, which basically means you cannot do anything but crawl. You can fire your weapon but not through the sights and with a huge penalty on aiming accuracy. Someone else can approach you and either first aid you, drag you, or carry you.
Medics can heal you fully, but you need to lie still while he works on you and it takes a while (sometimes up to a minute, since you continue to bleed if the wound was severe). Other team members can first aid you, which stabilizes you and gets you back on your feet, but you keep your injuries and accompanying penalties until you are treated by a medic.
I found this system to be the best so far. I still hate respawning with a passion, since it encourages exactly what you describe, don't care for tactics, just storm in, kill a few guys, and respawn to wear out the enemy. It's the only thing that was better in Call of Duty as opposed to Battlefield 3
Respawn + rush in and take out enemies each go... yeah, that gets a bit repetitive to me.... charge in same location. No relocating or changing your position against the ultra aimbot AIs with their skills crank up to terminator level. Are they going to change the ARMA 3 first aid system to ARMA 2's anytime or just leave it the you take damage, you use a medical kit and heal up (or most of the time, get shot up and die)?
(05-13-2013, 11:24 PM)Phantom link Wrote: [ -> ]Respawn + rush in and take out enemies each go... yeah, that gets a bit repetitive to me.... charge in same location. No relocating or changing your position against the ultra aimbot AIs with their skills crank up to terminator level. Are they going to change the ARMA 3 first aid system to ARMA 2's anytime or just leave it the you take damage, you use a medical kit and heal up (or most of the time, get shot up and die)?
It is worth noting that the first aid kits in Arma 3 only stabilize you, they don't heal you. Only a medic can heal you completely. What I dislike about it is the fact that you are not immobilized (you can still shoot when the medic heals you) and that it just is too fast.
If they don't make the same system as before, I suppose it can be made by users. The animations still seem to be in.
Here are some stuff I wrote to Bill (WCG) when we chatted about respawn:
Well, the fact is that respawn changes the whole game mentality. People take a lot of more risks and that's natural. However, the game becomes unrealistic. Not only because dead players suddenly "reborn", but also because they start not caring about theyr life.
Over the years (and I'm talking about 12 years that CiA is active. Since OFP), we have found out that the fear of dying is ESSENTIAL for realistic gameplay. Any other for of respawn makes the game to be like a racing game in which you can't crash, and instead of taking your corners turns proffesionally you just smash into the lane's walls until you are back on the road. Sure, you might sit out a long coop or an even an hour sometimes if you get killed early but I think that makes us only more calculated and careful players. That is simply not possible with respawn.
And believe me Bill, it's worth it. The gratification of completing a non-respawn mission is uncomparable to any other form of non-realistic gameplay. Even if the team manages to complete the mission after I died I feel gratified for the opportunity to contribute to the success, it's an extraordinary feeling.
There's is something that is called the First Aid Module. It's part of the BIS package, and most of the missions use it. When you are severely injured, you drop to the ground and you start loosing blood. if a comrade gets to you he can start "First Aid" you, meaning starting to work to stop your bleeding. depending on the injury, it's severity, and how fast he has gotten to you, you can get back into an active state, but still wounded. Then, only medic or a field hospital can get to a fully healed state. While you wait to be first aided, you can crawl very slowly, and fire very inaccurately. That's the first aid module. However, not always you will get this chance, some injuries, like a headshot, will take you out on the spot.
Remember that - the only chance to get a supreme gaming thrill, and I mean the type that gets your adrenaline levels high, your heart rate high up and to get you to a point where you must stop playing since you must sit down and relax - is ONLY through playing no-respawn missions...
And thanks for Alwarren for the enlightening racing car comparison
(05-14-2013, 05:03 PM)Variable link Wrote: [ -> ]And thanks for Alwarren for the enlightening racing car comparison
Racing Car comparison? O.o
I really didn't want to start a debate about respawning. I just thought it was funny that I was playing at both extremes, pretty much. And I'm enjoying both.
My own opinion is that I'm not too concerned about realism. This is a game, and it's never going to be realistic, anyway. I wouldn't
want it to be realistic, either. If I want realism, I'll join the military.Â
But I
am concerned about gameplay, so those kinds of arguments make sense to me. And I know exactly what you're getting at.
When it comes to gameplay, though, different people find different kinds of things to be fun. It is just as valid for someone to prefer instant, unlimited respawns as it is to prefer no respawns. It's just personal preference.
In MP games, you try to find other people who prefer to play like you do, and I'd say that's one of the real strengths of Arma. I suppose I'm kind of in the middle when it comes to respawns, but my big advantage is that I don't have strong preferences, one way or another. So I can find it all fun.
I might develop strong preferences eventually, I don't know. But if I insist on playing only with people who want to play
exactly as I do, I suspect I won't be playing many MP games.
At any rate, respawns or no, you guys are fun to play the game with. Thanks for letting me join you, now and then!
Bill
Glad to have you with us Bill!
Still hoping you'll get Arma 2...
(05-14-2013, 05:10 PM)Variable link Wrote: [ -> ]Your post on the BI forums.
Remember it now
(05-14-2013, 06:17 PM)Variable link Wrote: [ -> ]Glad to have you with us Bill!
Still hoping you'll get Arma 2...
I can only echo this. You're missing out with not playing Arma 2, right now, it is indefinitely better than what you get from Arma 3. Chernarus is IMO still the best looking map there is.
(05-14-2013, 07:07 PM)Alwarren link Wrote: [ -> ]I can only echo this. You're missing out with not playing Arma 2, right now, it is indefinitely better than what you get from Arma 3. Chernarus is IMO still the best looking map there is.
Indeed. You will also find Arma 2 to be a lot like Arma 3 control and game wise, so it's not much of a learning curve if you already know A3. Plus, you can use the content of Arma 2 in Arma 3 with AiA, or with an official solution (like in ToH: Rearmed) later.
Honestly, Arma 2 beats 3 hands down in almost all aspects right now
Thanks, but... the thing is, you guys are so outside my timezone that I really couldn't play with you much, anyway. It's early afternoon here when you play those games, and I really need to be doing other things then.
As it is, I'm not sure I'll be able to play many Fridays this summer. I'll just have to see how it goes.
Bill