(04-15-2015, 04:43 PM)McGregor link Wrote:Furthermore I've never understood why we have all the teams on the same channel but different frequencies by default. Seems to me that we are not utilizing the potential of TFAR.
You are correct, the only reason why it's done this way is TFAR default behavior, which has all teams on channel 1, and each team on a different frequency. Of course we can put the effort at the beginning of every multi-team mission to change that to each team on it's own channel but that might cause problems with players that are less familiar with the TFAR interface, which complicates things by changing with each faction. Maybe leave it for the mission leader to decide? Maybe leave it to the team leaders to decide?
(04-15-2015, 04:43 PM)McGregor link Wrote:That to me is a far better solution than having people fiddling with frequencies in the midst of battle.
Why would anyone need to fiddle with anything in the middle of a battle? Not sure I understand what you mean here.
(04-15-2015, 04:43 PM)McGregor link Wrote:I'm also not sure I like the whole concept of everyone listening in on the LR. I think it takes away a bit of responsibility from the team leaders in a way, and some times causes people, not to do as their leader says but to do what they heard over the LR. I don't know I'm just not sure I like it. I kind of like the feeling of conversations between leaders being private and then having the respective leaders brief their teams.
There are a lot of reasons why we do it this way:
1. Subordinates remain aware of other teams activities and of the general plan. A lot of missions are simply not interesting for subordinates as they could be if they are not aware of what going on. Listening to the command comm adds suspense and atmosphere if you ask me.
2. Ever tried playing without everybody's listening to the LR frequency? The TLs keep shushing their subordinates when they try to listen to the LR comms, and subordinates interrupting simply because they don't know that their leader is listening to an incoming transmission. It's a nightmare.
3. Easier succession of command when leaders get killed. Subordinate player will take command easily if we didn't keep him at the dark during all the mission by compartmentalizing comms.
I hope I convinced you, but of course, there's always room for a change. Let's hear what everybody think of that?
(04-15-2015, 07:36 PM)Variable link Wrote:Maybe leave it for the mission leader to decide? Maybe leave it to the team leaders to decide?
Yeah unless the default settings could be changed it would have to be up to the mission leader to decide. I just think the default is a bit dumb. I mean what's the purpose of having nine channels if only one is used?
(04-15-2015, 07:36 PM)Variable link Wrote:Why would anyone need to fiddle with anything in the middle of a battle? Not sure I understand what you mean here.
There has been numerous occasions where people had to join other teams and have had to change frequencies. Teams have been wiped out and survivors have had to join existing teams. Pressing a key to change channel just seems easier to me.
About point 1, 2 and 3:
1. I still feel that with proper communication by the team leader this is not an issue. Ex.
Hey guys this is what's going on and this is what we're going to do etc etc. When I'm team leader I feel a bit stupid briefing my team knowing they already know what's been said (If they paid attention to the LR traffic) so I tend not to bother with that.
2. You know I have, and YES you bring up a good point. I don't have a good answer to that other than it still happens but admittedly to a lesser extent
3.With proper team leading subordinates would not be in the dark. But yeah I hear what you are saying but I still feel we are taking the easy way. Kind of feel we are better then that. So still not convincedÂ
Personally, I think that listening in on the LR is a good idea. It means that everybody is on the same page and knows what is happening, or at least in theory. I definitely think it is a good idea, otherwise the TL has to repeat everything, and the usual "clear comms" or "Say again" and someone of your team interferes again.
Maybe a server-side addon could be used to set up a configuration with each team in a separate channel and LR already set up. It should be possible.
(04-15-2015, 08:38 PM)McGregor link Wrote:Yeah unless the default settings could be changed it would have to be up to the mission leader to decide. I just think the default is a bit dumb. I mean what's the purpose of having nine channels if only one is used?
I don't think it can be changed, although I agree it would be easier. "Switch to channel 4" is easier than "Switch to 123.2", although the latter shouldn't be a problem either if people just pay a little bit attention.
(04-15-2015, 08:38 PM)McGregor link Wrote:1. I still feel that with proper communication by the team leader this is not an issue. Ex. Hey guys this is what's going on and this is what we're going to do etc etc. When I'm team leader I feel a bit stupid briefing my team knowing they already know what's been said (If they paid attention to the LR traffic) so I tend not to bother with that.
In essence, I would agree with you. It *should* not be necessary. However, if the TL is killed, you know what happens: No one takes responsibility, or they say "I don't know what's going on".
(04-15-2015, 08:38 PM)McGregor link Wrote:3.With proper team leading subordinates would not be in the dark. But yeah I hear what you are saying but I still feel we are taking the easy way. Kind of feel we are better then that. So still not convincedÂ
Speaking from recent experience, the mission Hazy Harbor (kill the AA, and then the camp), missions like this that get so hectic quickly, and no amount of proper team leading will help.
I prefer that everyone listens to the LR. Sometimes there are 2 situations where things get hectic and having subordinates in the dark is a bad idea. Its rough to keep filling subordinates on the intel all the time when things can get hectic.
Sometimes I do find myself (the one time I was fumbling between LR and SR the last time I took leader slot a while while ago) having to go between both SR and LR since squad was under fired, but everyone else need immediate assistant, but without knowing where everyone was. At that point, I rather just stay on the LR trying to communicate to other team while subordinates can hear whats going on instead of repeating myself on both radios in the midst of combat.
I think it would be more beneficial instead of having players to always set alternates and stuff at the very beginning, maybe like what Alwarren suggested, a server side addon. Maybe something like Alpha is channel 1, Bravo channel 2, something like that or whatever works to reduce the amount of having to set things up in the beginning.
(04-15-2015, 10:07 PM)Varanon link Wrote:In essence, I would agree with you. It *should* not be necessary. However, if the TL is killed, you know what happens: No one takes responsibility, or they say "I don't know what's going on".
Don't forget, if no-one knew the LR Alternate channel, leaving the only communication (LR Radio bag) on the leader's body and team2team comms going missing alot of the time too.
I think that listening in, is ok imo. Everyone using it is up to date on the mission.
It's not that hard for Bravo to switch to Ch.2, Charlie to Ch.3 at the start of the mission, as they only have to press 2 or 3 on the Numpad but although I find being able to switch channel like that useful, I probably only use it when the radio interface is open, so it might be better if those keys only affected TFAR then. I'll suggest that to nkey. I still think RHS should have used some other keys though, maybe the arrow ones next to the numpad, seeing as TFAR was already using that. Maybe it will be possible to remap the Raven keys. I'll ask them about that.
I think I'd have to agree that we probably do need to have everyone able to hear the LR as their SR additional, as I've experienced the problem myself when leading and you have to keep saying "break" to try and get everyone to be quiet when you get incoming LR comms and sometimes it needs to be said a few times before everyone shuts up and you miss the start of the message and have to ask for it to be repeated. As McGregor says, it's a shame, as it does undermine the role of team leader a bit when everyone knows what's happening without needing to be briefed but it's probably unavoidable unless we can find another way to quickly alert everyone to shut up. Maybe someone can make a mod that sounds a klaxon to all the subordinates at the push of a button
On the other hand, if the team leader needs to brief everyone as to what they're going to do after new instructions come in on the LR, maybe marking the map and making sure everyone's seen it, then he obviously can't start following those instructions as quickly which could be a problem in some situations and will slow down the mission somewhat, so there's pros and cons for both approaches.
I don't know how they manage this IRL but I guess that a) the squad don't tend to be using SR amongst themselves and just shout to each other and b) it's a lot more obvious when the leader is using LR so everyone knows to be quiet (or the radio's just a lot louder so it doesn't matter if they're not).
My earlier suggestion for the UAV operator to be able to speak to one squad at a time is a bit different, as both he and all the team leaders (and the subordinates if they set their SR additional) will still be able to hear the main LR channel at all times, it would just provide an extra LR channel unique to each squad for them and the UAV operator to communicate on. As there'd only be 2 or 3 team leaders who are meant to talk to the UAV operator, expecting them to ask for clearance on the main LR channel before commencing comms, in case he's busy talking to another squad, might not be unrealistic. It would still mean that the subordinates wouldn't be able to hear when the UAV operator and the team leader are talking on the squad's LR channel though, so we might run into the same problems.
(04-15-2015, 06:06 PM)UnNamedGER link Wrote:generally I got to say it would be nice if more mod authors, would allow for special controls to be remapped. especially TFAR, I would love to map at least the LR PTT button to my joystick so I could always answer not matter what I'm doing at that moment. I noticed that it seems to be quite irritating to the other teams if I dont answer rigth away while watching the "united sarani lost squad " and the "foehammer" video.
UnNamed, you could use something like Xpadder (easy but not free) or AutoHotkey (not so easy but free) to make a joystick button send your PTT key. I'm sure there's other programs that can do this but those are the two I'm aware of. Another advantage of doing this is you can have one button act as a shift/modifier, so when held down the other buttons send something different to when it's not held.
EDIT: I found you a few other options.
http://glovepie.org/glovepie.php - This might look complicated but apparently if you ignore the scripting tab and go to the GUI tab it's quite easy. I haven't tried it myself yet though.
http://gamepadtokeyboard.artistspage.de/
http://www.webupd8.org/2013/09/map-keybo...mepad.html
http://pixelbyte.itch.io/joysticker
I do prefer Xpadder simply because it shows the button layout and which keys I've mapped to each button, so I can keep it open on my second monitor for quick reference in case I forget but if that's not important to you then probably one of these alternatives will be just as good and cheaper
http://www.xpadder.com/
(04-16-2015, 12:32 AM)Den link Wrote:Don't forget, if no-one knew the LR Alternate channel, leaving the only communication (LR Radio bag) on the leader's body and team2team comms going missing alot of the time too.
I think that listening in, is ok imo. Everyone using it is up to date on the mission.
Yeah, as we've discussed before even if we're not going to make all the subordinates set their SR additional channel to the LR frequency, we should at least let everyone know what the frequency is at the start of the mission, so that they can use it if they can't get to the LR on a downed leader.
I imagine that the SR can't substitute for the LR in this way IRL and they have to retrieve the LR to re-establish comms (although probably everyone, or at least several people, knows what the LR frequency is), so you could argue this is more realistic but hey, we're trying to have fun here, not simulate real-life
(04-15-2015, 10:03 PM)Alwarren link Wrote:Maybe a server-side addon could be used to set up a configuration with each team in a separate channel and LR already set up. It should be possible.
wouldn't it be nice if setting up radios would be something the mission leader could do in the briefing for everyone xD
(04-16-2015, 01:16 AM)doveman link Wrote:UnNamed, you could use something like Xpadder (easy but not free) or AutoHotkey (not so easy but free) to make a joystick button send your PTT key. I'm sure there's other programs that can do this but those are the two I'm aware of. Another advantage of doing this is you can have one button act as a shift/modifier, so when held down the other buttons send something different to when it's not held.
thanks doveman
. I will definately look into those, as I rarely fly fixed wings in arma tehre are 2 bottons free for radio
(04-16-2015, 12:32 AM)Den link Wrote:Don't forget, if no-one knew the LR Alternate channel, leaving the only communication (LR Radio bag) on the leader's body and team2team comms going missing alot of the time too.
Maybe someone could be appointed someone for second in command for each team at the beginning who will constantly listen in on the LR traffic , preferably someone playing a role that allows for him to switch his backback for the LR if need be. it could also be agreed upon that the second in command will have e.g the odds as his fireteam if the squad splits up (but thats probably going off topic here ... again xD)
Whooa this really took off during the night
After sleeping on the subject all night I have reached the conclusion that I see the need for everyone to hear LR so there's no talking over the LR traffic. Although I feel it happens a bit despite that. An other thing is that as a regular team member I sometimes feel like I have too much radio chatter going trough my ears to be able to focus on the task at hand I.E locating shooters, hearing close contacts etc. Maybe that's just me though
In the end I'm fine with things being the way they are. What really bugs me are those damn channels. I just find it annoyingly stupid.
And about the NUM keys, is it not possible to configure the channel selecting with a modifier? Right Ctrl+NUM1 etc. Then they wouldn't interfere with the Raven controls
UnNamed also mentioned something that has me tearing my hair out some times. The ability to map LR to one of you joystick buttons. I've tried doing this via external programming software with very poor result. I really wish nKey would add it
(04-16-2015, 12:58 AM)doveman link Wrote:Maybe someone can make a mod that sounds a klaxon to all the subordinates at the push of a button
What about some form of air horn?Â
(04-16-2015, 12:32 AM)Den link Wrote:Don't forget, if no-one knew the LR Alternate channel, leaving the only communication (LR Radio bag) on the leader's body and team2team comms going missing alot of the time too.
If the teams were just on different channels and not different frequencies on the same channel that would never be an issue.
(04-16-2015, 12:58 AM)doveman link Wrote:I don't know how they manage this IRL but I guess that a) the squad don't tend to be using SR amongst themselves and just shout to each other and b) it's a lot more obvious when the leader is using LR so everyone knows to be quiet (or the radio's just a lot louder so it doesn't matter if they're not).
I've been thinking a bit about this too. If you think about it you never have a problem hearing what's being said over radio when playing single player no matter how much is going on. A simple EQ plugin for teamspeak could really help TS transmissions not sound so muddy and cut trough the game audio without the need to raise the volume to insane levels (10+ years as a sound engineer, I think about these things a lot). Sadly I don't think such a plugin exists
(04-15-2015, 10:07 PM)Varanon link Wrote:Speaking from recent experience, the mission Hazy Harbor (kill the AA, and then the camp), missions like this that get so hectic quickly, and no amount of proper team leading will help.
Yeah I know. I was one of the TLs, I died :
(04-16-2015, 12:58 AM)doveman link Wrote:It's not that hard for Bravo to switch to Ch.2, Charlie to Ch.3 at the start of the mission, as they only have to press 2 or 3 on the Numpad
I'm convinced, I suggest we will try that. Please remind the leader at the beginning of the next mission, I'm sure that I'll forget...
(04-16-2015, 12:58 AM)doveman link Wrote:although I find being able to switch channel like that useful, I probably only use it when the radio interface is open, so it might be better if those keys only affected TFAR then. I'll suggest that to nkey.
I doubt he'll agree as it seems like the whole point of the numpad control was to server as hot keys that will allow the user to switch channels without opening the radio interface :-\
By the way, I'm still waiting for nkey to provide a server configuration key to automatically set LR frequency as alternate channel...
(04-16-2015, 10:38 AM)McGregor link Wrote:After sleeping on the subject all night I have reached the conclusion that I see the need for everyone to hear LR so there's no talking over the LR traffic. Although I feel it happens a bit despite that.
I bet that most of the times the people that don't have LR frequency as alternate are the ones that interfere over the LR traffic... When I get that sort of interference I ask my guys who doesn't have an alternate channel configured and that's indeed the result.
(04-16-2015, 10:38 AM)McGregor link Wrote:An other thing is that as a regular team member I sometimes feel like I have too much radio chatter going trough my ears to be able to focus on the task at hand I.E locating shooters, hearing close contacts etc. Maybe that's just me though
Although I feel that it is important, I acknowledge that it can get overwhelming.
That's why it's not mandatory. If that's the case, just turn it off.
(04-16-2015, 12:58 AM)doveman link Wrote:It's not that hard for Bravo to switch to Ch.2, Charlie to Ch.3 at the start of the mission, as they only have to press 2 or 3 on the Numpad [...]
(04-16-2015, 10:47 AM)Variable link Wrote:I'm convinced, I suggest we will try that. Please remind the leader at the beginning of the next mission, I'm sure that I'll forget...
only thing is that only the squads seem to have the chanels mapped the same. i think this would only work if all squads had their radios set the same way (wich would be a really nice thing to have ) as default with each squad on a different chanel (wich would make switching chanels at the begin of the mission obsolete9
Damn. I think you are right. If I'm on team alpha, on channel 1, and switch to channel 2, I won't be on bravo's frequency after all, would I...
(04-16-2015, 11:52 AM)Variable link Wrote:Damn. I think you are right. If I'm on team alpha, on channel 1, and switch to channel 2, I won't be on bravo's frequency after all, would I...
Wasn't there some server-side option to make all channels use the same frequency ?