There are quite a few germans at cia, i wonder what they think of this situation
On the economist front, the EU predicted they do not have the resources to sustain the constant influx of immigrants and the numbers will rise by 2016. I don't think it is wrong to help innocent refugees(and even the economic immigrants) but the fact is unless they assimilate into society and are gainfully employed it going to be a huge financial burden for European taxpayers. So if they end up feeding off welfare and being a burden to society what then?
When I did, I had to clear out the house I had lived in for 26 years. This took almost 2 and a half weeks. In that time, I watched my familiar surroundings being disassembled first into a mess of boxes and parts of furniture, and then into emptiness. Once the rooms began to empty, it felt alien and quite plainly confusing.
My days were filled with work, pain and driving around stuff. I spent hours in a moving van. I slept three hours a day. I was feeling desperate, confused, and sad. I said good bye to my neighbors who I had known for all these 26 years. I will probably not see them again.
Why I am telling this? Well, this is but a tiny glimpse of what a refugee must feel. I often thought about that during the move.If this confuses me, and drags me down like this, how the hell must a refugee feel who is moved around with people he doesn't know, into a fate unknown to him, in a foreign country were most people don't even speak his language and he doesn't speak theirs, not knowing if he will ever see his family again, or his home...
The way that refugees are handled by most countries is disgusting. Hungary treats them like cattle, most other rich European countries even refuse to take them. Germany is much more welcoming, but there are people here that want to put a stop to it as well. They talk about quotas and shit like this.
IMO, it's our fucking duty to help these people. All the bickering about numbers, all the bullshit about how our culture is not compatible with Islam, I fucking hate it.
Our government is proud that this year Germany had a balanced budget. For the first time in years, no new debts had to be made. This is mostly because of the exploitative tax policies that burden down people like me, i.e. the self-employed, small businesses, etc. Our government literally jerks off to that. So yeah, we are in fucking great shape as a country. So would you please all stop to propose that we cannot handle this?
At the same time, in the first six month, weapon exports in Germany have already reached the level of 2014. We're exporting tanks to Saudi Arabia and Quatar, to be used in their wars in e.g. Jemen. Our industry is fueling their wars. They get fat on it and dare to say that we shouldn't take any more refugess.
(10-31-2015, 02:10 PM)Variable link Wrote:Do you think that no cultural impact on German culture is expected? Or you think that whatever it's going to be is a price worth paying?
I'd imagine the actual impact would be the same/similar as the one from all the Turks that live in Germany, but the "omg ISIS islam behead swarm invasion muh religionz" narrative will probably worsen the integration process.
I think refugees settling anywhere on their way to Germany or Scandinavia or rather, being forced/stopped to end up there would turn into a fascist shitstorm.
(10-31-2015, 02:10 PM)Variable link Wrote:Do you think that no cultural impact on German culture is expected? Or you think that whatever it's going to be is a price worth paying?
As Outlawz said, Germany has a high percentage of turks, between 1.5 and 2.7 million out of a population of around 90 million. I think that people value "integration" too much. I do not think that cultural differences need to be a problem. Düsseldorf has its own Japantown, with somewhere near 7000 Japanese living together including japanese businesses and street names.
I don't really think that there will be no cultural impact on German culture. I have no idea what way it will develop. However, I do think that all of this "we'll get Sharia law in Germany" stuff is complete bollocks.
Most of all, though, I see helping the refugees as an immediate need. If you would be standing in front of a burning building and you see a child still inside, would you not consider going in to save it? The current crisis is a fact, the need for these people for help is a fact. That is the immediate problem we are facing, and it needs a solution. Ideally, the solution would be the removal of the cause for the refugee crisis, but failing that, we must help these people. I do not think that it is right to send someone back to die just because you are afraid that there may be more mosques in Germany.
It saddens me that my country has become entangled with our southern neighbors with its terrible foreign policies. Thankfully we just voted out our warmongering politicians and our new leaders have vowed to take in those in need and put an end any military assistance, and instead focus on humanitarian needs.
Like Germany, Canada is largely a melting pot of different cultures and people, which I firmly believe benefits a society.
I think a lot of fear comes from not really being familiar with refugees and their culture. Bear in mind that most Syrian refugees are middle class, educated, coming from secular state and except for the color of the skin they can be any of us. We have here a small Syrian, Iraqi and Palestinian minority that came to study here and some 20-30 years ago but decided to stay. All of them perfectly fit here. In my neighborhood there was a punk band fronted by a Syrian. But why we would need to care at all, for all we care people can worship Cthulhu if they want. I am very disappointed by Eastern European countries and their reaction to this. They wanted liberalism and western values and when they got now they are, oh but we didn't mean that!
(10-31-2015, 06:49 PM)Etzu link Wrote:It saddens me that my country has become entangled with our southern neighbors with its terrible foreign policies.
You should hear some of the stuff that comes out of the Republicans' mouths *facepalm* . Not only fuck up foreign policy, but screwing with domestic policies as well.
(10-31-2015, 05:41 PM)Alwarren link Wrote:As Outlawz said, Germany has a high percentage of turks, between 1.5 and 2.7 million out of a population of around 90 million. I think that people value "integration" too much. I do not think that cultural differences need to be a problem. Düsseldorf has its own Japantown, with somewhere near 7000 Japanese living together including japanese businesses and street names.
I don't really think that there will be no cultural impact on German culture. I have no idea what way it will develop. However, I do think that all of this "we'll get Sharia law in Germany" stuff is complete bollocks.
Most of all, though, I see helping the refugees as an immediate need. If you would be standing in front of a burning building and you see a child still inside, would you not consider going in to save it? The current crisis is a fact, the need for these people for help is a fact. That is the immediate problem we are facing, and it needs a solution. Ideally, the solution would be the removal of the cause for the refugee crisis, but failing that, we must help these people. I do not think that it is right to send someone back to die just because you are afraid that there may be more mosques in Germany.
Have you considered what will happen when the number of immigrants reaches levels too high for the economy to sustain? Helping a child in a burning house is a good thing but what do you do when there are 10 children orphaned from this incident and everyone has their hands full. Offering asylum to the homeless is the right thing to do but there will be a point when the capacity to accommodate refugees reaches its limits and it will well be there within months. Think about that, if the war drags on for the years and years, you need to think of housing for millions in a short span of time and the prolonged burden on the economy.
When will it be too high for the economy? Our economy was apparently good enough to bail out the banks. It is good enough to sink millions and millions into a new airport in Berlin that will apparently be finished in who knows how many years.
Let's not deceive ourselves. WE, that is, the first world, survive by leeching the third. Our food production is so high that we sell cheap food to Africa, ruining their markets and their farming industry. We use cheap labor in the third world countries to fabricate our cheap products, our fucking iPhones, our T-Shirts and what have you.
Before we run out of money, we will run out of space.
I am not proposing that Germany should take them all. That is the problem right now. Only three european countries are taking refugees. Others just simply look away. There would be no question at all whether the economy could handle it if they would all bear the load equally. I am not saying Germany is doing something wrong. I am saying the rest of the world is doing something wrong. Hungary is doing something wrong in the way they treat refugees. France and Great Britain, two large, wealthy countries, don't take ANY.
What alternatives do you propose? "Sorry, we're full. Please go back to Syria and let yourselves be raped by ISIS"? We've lived off the third world long enough, it's about time we do something for THEM. And that means all of Europe, and the USA.
Speed up the war effort so we can give everyone what they want sooner. The refugees want to return home and so does Europe. If this is not at least shortly possible because of a lack of military strength, i some think funds should be channeled to the war effort instead of providing accommodation. ISIS are bronze age scum with 21st century weapons technology in their hands, there is no way any intelligence could come out of them to generate capital where on earth do they get their funding? Instead of deploying more soldiers i wonder if it would be more viable to investigate this issue and put a stop to it.
Hell, if it comes to discussing practical war strategies, fuck the geneva convention and fuck ethics, use napalm bombs and mustard gas, take captives and pull out their teeth. The ISIS do not treat people with basic human rights and would do the same if they were in our position and had the first world's resources. This certainly deserves an exception and think of all benefits of winning the war sooner.