Comrades in Arms Discussion Board

Teamwork essential, hardcore mission, each play-though will be different.

Here is the link to the 1-5 player version... all the same below, but you have no CAS (but one Artillery support call), and no revive script (but can switch players if single player), and AAA is replaced with a turret of some kind.  If you cant fly, you can call a support transport chopper.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi...=701802842
(this will not ruin your experience when playing the 16 player version, as it will be different anyway)

Here is the 16 player steam version... you can practice in single player or with up to 5 players on the version above
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi...=732077008


I started making this mission in February and finally finished : )   This 16 player version requires some very tight teamwork to succeed and some very clever tactics. 


Every time its played, the location, time of day, enemy units, weather and other aspects will change, I have spent a lot of time trying to get the enemy patrols to make sense and not look like they were randomly placed.


I have other versions of this mission, but thought I would share this 16 player version here, as its the hardest unforgiving version.  You are severally outnumbered, but with clever use of your teams, you should get the enemy numbers down making it possible for your infantry teams to move in.


I have written up my tactical approach... have tried and failed, but feel this may work... I would suggest a read though, unless you want to see what ideas you come up with (or tweak mine)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi...=699456560


Your squad consists of:
1 UAV/Recon team [sniper, Spotter/Engineer, UAV operator]
1 Tank team [2 crew]. NOTE: script has been added to this Marshal tank to allow it to be sling loaded
2 Infantry teams [4 guys per team]
2 pilots (one for transport, one for CAS[Wipeout is on runway at airfield])
1 commander player


Who ever takes UAV operator and and whoever takes CAS pilot, need to work together, to lock on with targets.


Every role is VERY important, make sure you only take on a role you know how to use! Ammo is limited, so dont waste your ammo on targets others can take out. for example, reserve your AT missiles in case you need them (Let CAS blow shit up, otherwise, you may walk around a corner, face to face with an armored vehicle with no more rockets)


Also, one note, whoever takes sniper role, there is an ammo box near you with a NVS inside, take that if its dark!


Ok, here is some intel that you will need to read, before taking on this mission.

1. Leaders approach will be different every time, depending on location, mission, enemy forces and terrain
2 .Enemy vehicles, patrols, locations, weather, time of day will change on each playthrough
3. Enemy may have night vision
4. Enemy may have AA or AT units (should be a small number, if any)
5. There may be enemy snipers in the area
6. Enemy may call in air support if you are spotted
7. There may be AAA in the area (if present, this WILL be marked on map)
8. There may be Artillery in the area (if present, this might NOT be marked on map)
9. There is a chance that the enemy have taken over a base in the area... it may be marked on the map, but if not, then be very careful if you see any military buildings.
If you gain access to the base, you will find intel of the exact objective locations
10. There may also be civilians in town.... kill too many and the mission is failed (you will told to head back to base where a court date will be scheduled)
11. We may have located a radio tower, if so, it’s an opportunity to destroy it, as this will lower the chance of the enemy calling in air support.
It shouldn’t be heavily guarded if guarded at all  (No popup message will report this as destroyed, so you need to make sure its fallen down, and report to command when succeeded)
12. Also, an Anti Personnel minefield may be present (only one, on my many tests and playthoughs I have walked into one a few times now.. Make sure engineer knows how to encounter mines).
13. Ammo is limited, but the commander has access to one supply drop


I also have a 10 player easier version (I say easier, its still hard, but you can afford to lose half your team and still stand a chance of winning)... also the 10 player version has a small 4 man playable enemy team, just to spice things up a bit!  (will add this here when its ready)

Uploaded! And your mission has stars now

I really hope we get to try this one soon!!! the anticipation when i see 16 players are online is too much lol

Nearly everything in this mission is random (all points above will change everytime, even I wont know whats about to happen!), so much time spent testing, tweaking, coding etc... I hope it is enjoyed, and we have a few failed attempts... I would really love to command this mission after its been tried a few times!

Anyway, I have updated the the pbo in the OP (the mission name has changed, but have kept this filename the same)

Here are the updates:
 
1.      CAS can now rearm, repair and refuel
2.      Transport can drop in a supply create
3.      Added radio message for some mission events
4.      Some code general improvements
5.      Recon team spotter now also is an engineer (to aid with mine detection on route if needed) – all except the sniper have silencers

I have also added to the OP the correct steam version (the link above was for the 1 to 5 players version)

Thank you

Treendy : )

Note: this can be played with anything from 14 players... any less will be tricky balancing out the teams

Mission uploaded and renamed to co16_synergy.altis.pbo. There's no problem renaming a mission, as long as you are clear that it's a new version. As long as we don't keep two version of the same mission on the server, we are happy. I'll make sure to pick it when we are ~16 players. Thanks Treendy!

Thanks you for playing this mission, first attempt failed, but now you know how tight the comms and teamwork needs to be, hopefully we may get further next time. (I have quite a few suggestions with some choices you could have made, but I will hold back for now, until we have had a few attempts).

I recorded this, and will upload the video soon, but you can hear some good comms between teams, so a good initial attempt, a few missed commands that aided towards the loss of Alpha (i.e., APC should have stayed near recon team until enemy target and numbers were identified). I was surprised to see the A10 (wipeout) flying around before we took out the AAA... The AAA's vision must have been obscured or he was having lunch, as he will normally get a good few rounds out right away.

You were also very unlucky to have a T-100 sitting right next to your insertion point, he must have been visiting family or something (its rare they are that far out, but shit happens)

A10 pilot did a great job with air to ground runs on infantry and vehicles (whoever flew, hopefully will be pilot again next round... think it was MJ?).  Just need to be careful taking out targets that ground havent spotted, just in case there are civilians near by (too many civilian kills will result in a RTB request from HQ and a court date for command).

Im looking forward to the next attempt, you will see how different it will play out, the only thing that that will remain the same is the tight teamwork (hence the mission name "Synergy").

Some adjustments I will be making:
1. One of the twins spotted a loadout issue (loads of M203's and nothing to fire them)
2. I will add an additional optional slot for the Marshal (so 3 man team)... but will keep mission description as 16 players (pilot can jump in to it, or if we have 1 too many players)
3. I mention support options in briefing, I need to remove that
4. The target cache will have been in one of the buildings around the main marker, I will adjust so if its over 100 meters away, we maybe get an update from HQ with some further intel of its exact location (once we have checked out its suspected location).
5. Will change the cross to a question mark as that will highlight the fact the position of our target isnt exact.

I have a version with one objective... but I will keep it as two objectives for now (the enemy have been softened by the time you start moving towards the second location, so doesnt take as long as reaching the first).

Any comments and suggestions welcome. 

Thank you

I think the mission has a lot of unfulfilled potential given the opportunity for a complex joint-op between multi-disciplinary assets. I loved directing the Wipeout to my lased targets and see them blow up. Some issues, however, get in the way.

First, the briefing doesn't frame the mission well. It feels like it was written just to out of necessity. It will help to get some context with regards to why the players are going through all that effort to destroy two ammo caches of an enemy that is already look like armed to the teeth

I think that the mission setup can be improved, too. It's fine to encourage the players to sling load the Marshal, but it feels a bit forced. Combined with he fact that driving the infantry to the far away objective is probably faster, I think this should redesigned. Maybe resolve this by having the infantry teams start much closer to the objective, and having the Marshal in a distant location. That way, the Marshal could start driving to the target, meet up half-way with the Huron which in turn will sling load it closer to the players.

What are the Huron pilot suppose to do after he ferries in the Marshal? Sling loading is indeed cool, but a feature being cool is not enough for it to appear in the mission, especially if it is not feel needed.

All in all, I look forward to see how you will update the mission.

To add to what Variable said:

The biggest problem in mission design with multiple assets is always to make sure the "workload" is balanced. In this case, the Wipeout probably had "most fun", while the pilot would have had nothing to do anymore after the transport job, as Variable mentioned.

And not only that, you even have a slot in there (the third pilot) that basically has no job AT ALL. How do you expect a player slotting in into that slot to enjoy the mission ? I would never design a mission that has someone on standby "just in case".

Especially transport pilots are a possible downer in such missions. In Crash Site, I was also thinking about what to do with the chopper pilot, but beyond recon, there's not much he can do, but the mission is relatively short.

Also, but that's a pet peeve of mine, I hate ammo boxes in the beginning, especially if they aren't logically placed (like, under a camo net, into a building etc).

Like Variable, I'm sure it has a lot of potential, though, and I look forward to trying it again

This is great feedback, thank you.

Sorry for the long message, I have read all comments and have tried to answer the best I can.

I haven't played this with more than 8 players, so was great seeing it played out with 16.

Regarding the unfulfilled potential for complex joint ops, and also regarding the transport pilot
I would normally sling load the hunter and drop the recon team near the area, then while they drive to a good location and are assessing the location, spotting any AA/AT threats, the pilot can collect the rest of the squad and pick up the Marshal, then at some point will need to transport the supply box and drop that to the ground units, and possibly to relocate the ground units after they have destroyed the AAA, as enemy will be moving in to their location quickly.

Also getting a team in place to take out the AAA vehicle, then when destroyed, can relay back to command, so Air support can fly in and work with the UAV guy taking out important threats while sniper/spotter can search and kill Snipers, AA and AT units, clearing the path for ground units and making it safer for the Marshall, but avoiding bombing any vehicles in town where you may find civilians (save that for the ground units).

So, every asset is important, if you can utilize them all, each doing there own tasks, it will increase the chance of success... its a very hard job for command, with so much to remember, its a juggling act, trying to keep all teams busy at the same time.
(^^^ will these comments fulfill the potential for complex joint ops?)

Regarding sling loading the Marshal.  
The AO locations change everytime, sometimes its a lot closer, so no need to sling load, or could even be further.  I quite liked having the team start at HQ and have to decide how to get to the AO depening on its distance and location.  However, i will add more drivable vehicles, just incase the objective is closer.

There are other elements to this mission you havent seen yet
like the enemy base, if found and taken control of, you can use the intel to get the exact location of the objectives, or if we have discovered the location of an enemy comms tower, destroying that will also help lower chance for enemy air support. We was also lucky not to have walked through a mine field (engineers on point, walking in file formation as often as possible)

Also, as its realistic revive mode, and every role is VERY important, its strongly advised to try your best to stay alive, hide, call support, don't stick your head up if being shot at etc...

Getting a balance is definitely one of the most challenge aspects of making this mission
The Transport pilot will have a less active role than some other units, but transporting multiple teams to different locations, supply drop, possibly aiding transport to Comms tower if available and even the possibility to rescue a POW, all should help keep him active enough.

Also, I agree, its not great having a 3rd pilot
I can remove him, as he is not required... but is more of a safety net (a 2nd chance), as if our main transport pilot is killed, we at least have a second chance for our pilot to jump back in and extract us if needed (otherwise we will all be stranded at the AO).  Its a reserve pilot, so I would avoid filling that spot.  Its a 16 player mission, with 17 slots.

I will try to sort out something with the ammo box
There should only be one on the ground near the recon team, but I can add the designator batteries into the recon team's hunter (as a Bohimia bug, seems to remove them from the player every time you try to place a battery into a backpack in editor)


I will also write up a breifing that makes the risk of fighting a large enemy force have a justified reason.

Thanks again for your feedback

For my part as the A10 pilot, there was clearly AA, but it was manpads rather than AAA like I was expecting. I took a hit and dodged 3 or 4 and that was it. I figured that throwing ATGM at vehicles was pretty safe, it's probably not going to cause any more problems than blowing the vehicles up would anyway. 

Using the laser for gun runs against infantry was easy for me, though smoke would also work as well. Once Variable got hit, I really didn't get to do much more due to the lack of targets/targetting information coming from the ground, so completely forgetting the civilian thing, I decided to see if I couldn't hit the cache with LGBs dropped dumb 

I'd suggest making the objectives something like a pair of positions that need destroying, or something like an HQ.

Thanks for that info Mjolnir, 

I have your hit on video : )  looked like you was heading back to base to repair?

You was very lucky regarding the AAA, when I looked at the map, the AAA looked very close to a building, so he must have pared right close to it and blocked his view.

I had a couple of questions for you, but i can only seem to remember one at the moment 

1. Did you need to re-arm at all?  I was thinking about removing that ammo truck, just to make the pilot feel more need to be carefull (dont want to run out of flares if AA present)... as the pilot, would that have enhanced your fear, or lowered the fun?

If we spotted an active enemy base, that is normally a fun target, depending on its size and how many units, its a great one to bomb to pieces before sending ground in to gather intel, hopefully next time, the base will be present.

I did consider going back to repair and rearm, I was at approximately half health and I was down to about 25-30% ammo, it would probably be wise to limit the ammo available to prevent the pilot from going overkill on everything and make him think. Though if we had got to the second cache, it may have been a different story.

Ok, here are the updates, just need to re-write the briefing to give a just reason for our fight! then will upload and confirm.

- added GPS to APC
- removed re-arm vehicle from airfield
- adjusted ammo loadout, so will require ammo drop (we had too many mags last time)
- gave sniper a silenced rifle, with the M320 LRR in Recon teams hunter
- optional slot for the Marshal (so 3 man team)
- move designator batteries, and remote laser designator into hunter (so can remove ammobox in middle of floor)
- added hummingbird to airfield for the pilot (for small ground movements)
- removed support options from breifing
- Changed the Cross over the objective to a question mark (as the location is near this area)
- If objective location is too far from marker, we will gain intel providing more details about its whereabouts at some point in time
- lowered enemy air support ammo (so they cant keep deploying flares)
- made a slight change to civ behaviour
- There is a small chance our base is under attack from the start, I have added friendly units in base, to help protect against enemy should this happen
- if enemy in our base area, sound our own siren
- adjust ammo create, with less ammo (just mags and FAKs)
- added real voice as radio messages (not computer generated now)

any thoughts or suggestions on the above, now's the time to mention, before I update the OP tomorrow

(08-31-2016, 01:55 AM)treendy Wrote: [ -> ]- adjusted ammo loadout, so will require ammo drop (we had too many mags last time)

This strikes me as overly artificial. Why would anybody leave ammo at home when they head out?

Would it not be likely when sending out your squad, to only have the required loadout, not giving all units every possible amount of ammo in from the base? (not wanting to lose too many mags on the field, giving our enemy loads of free ammunition should we fail)

Leaving the possibility that if we suffered casualties and our guys had to use more than estimated that we would request an ammo drop from HQ maybe after we have cleared the first location.

Maybe when I say "so will require ammo drop" is incorrect, as with 3 mags each, if we are resourceful with few casualties, then we may not need to request an ammo drop.

But should we need to, our guys at HQ will hear the request, and get a forklift truck(or what ever you would use in the army) to drive the create out from our warehouse/barracks? (loaded with mags and FAKs) ready for collection from our transport chopper.

Your thoughts on the above please

(08-31-2016, 11:59 AM)Alwarren Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-31-2016, 01:55 AM)treendy Wrote: [ -> ]- adjusted ammo loadout, so will require ammo drop (we had too many mags last time)

This strikes me as overly artificial. Why would anybody leave ammo at home when they head out?

Because of weight limitations maybe? If everyone is carrying specialist kit, then you are going to end up carrying less.