The Debriefing Thread

[Varanon]

Verstanden Wrote:I suggest moving the debrieding thread to discord:

I agree, it makes things easier and the discussion more accessible to more people. 

I would suggest to appoint someone to keep an eye on the channel, though, and as you suggested archive important points.

[Variable]

I guess it’s time for another nail in the forums coffin. Well, I guess you can’t stop the wheels of time. Let’s do it

[Verstanden]

Varanon Wrote:I would suggest to appoint someone to keep an eye on the channel, though, and as you suggested archive important points.

Since I am swinging the hammer for this nail, I am volunteering to do it. Let me know if you want content archived.

[Alwarren]

Variable Wrote:I guess it’s time for another nail in the forums coffin. Well, I guess you can’t stop the wheels of time. Let’s do it

Problem is that the debriefing thread has been dormant for literally years

[Variable]

And yet it had the most potential to revive it.

[Sputnik Monroe]

I think we should post the AAR here, and have the discussion on the discord.

[Alwarren]

Variable Wrote:And yet it had the most potential to revive it.

Well I agree, but it says a lot that nothing is happening. Nobody posted an AAR here since ages. We can of course not discuss it on Discord, but the result will not be more posts here, it will be no discussion at all.

[Varanon]

I don't want to derail this into a "Discord vs, Forum" thread, but I think it's a matter of "progress" (for lack of a better word). 

The question is: Do we want to have after action reports, or not ? If we do, we have to face that face that a lot of people do not or only sporadically use the forum. Using Discord is much easier, although it's much more volatile (information that is scrolled out will be "gone"... not really gone, but difficult to access).

Personally, I don't really care one way or the other. I can see how people who don't spent their whole day in front of a computer might prefer discord, but for me, having no life and a job that keeps me in front of the machine, anyway, it doesn't matter too much.

In the end, it's also not an either/or decision. Both can coexist

[Varanon]

Last night we played my CSAR mission on Livonia, I was Zeus.

Granted, as Zeus, you always see errors more clearly. Because you see the whole picture... 

But I can't for the life of me understand why the last few times we played this mission, the teams insisted on staying on the road. Not near the road, but ON the road... so when the Boxer rolled up and started shooting, you had to destroy it with AT while it was literally on top of you, and it was able to kill half of your squad. 

Later, the MI-8 swooped in, and while the area was bad regarding landing zones, I don't understand why the chopper had to slowly fly over the zone while being shot from anywhere.  Landing on the wreckage was unfortunate, but the whole area was littered with wreckages (road, mind you). 

Unfortunately, I don't hear the comms as Zeus, so I was not aware of whether there was communications going on or not. I wonder, though, why you none of the helos tried to land earlier...

[Sputnik Monroe]

Well, we had what seemed like a very defensible strong two story building we were in. The Boxer killed no one while it was alive, unfortunately when I destroyed it with my RPG-7, the building upon which we planned our entire defense and survival upon simply blinked out of existence. Usually there will be a large cloud of dust generated when a building model is destroyed and it changes to a rubble model. However  we didn't even get the benefit of an obscuring dust cloud, and there was no rubble even, the building simply vanished in the blink of an eye leaving us totally exposed. 

A few of us were on the second floor and thus took fall damage in addition to damage from the exploding boxer, those who survived were quickly mowed down in our new completely flat open area we were in. As far as I know only Mjolnir, Stick, Rund, and I made it over to a knee high piece of cover about 15 to 20 meters away. When I hit the deck in there I saw Mjolnir was unconscious and began to try and treat him and get his radio, Stick was also there. Mjolnir bled out, and I turned and saw Stick go unconscious, so I worked on him the best i could all the while trying to communicate to the choppers with Mjolnir's Long Range radio I had commandeered. Around that same time Rund jumped into the small area of cover as well. 

From the time our building blinked out of existence to the complete wipe of our team I'd say maybe 3 minutes tops had passed.

I really blame myself for blasting the Boxer, I should not have destroyed it when it was literally pressed up against our building. It was a stupid move, and I apologize to the rest of my team, I killed us all with that move.

[Mjolnir]

I was in charge, I stayed there because of the building, which with hindsight was not the best idea. But I couldn't be blamed for the building disappearing underneath me, I fell a floor, saw the crew and started firing at them as I backed away. I got at least 1 before getting shot and then dying before anyone could deal with me. In future I'm just going to move away from the roads and find a clearing or something to use.

EDIT: Just to make it clear, I'm not trying to worm out of it, this was a series of fuckups that were bedded in my major, all encompassing fuckup that was the decision to bed in by the road.

[Den]

RE: Find and Rescue missions,

I am not familiar with official protocol when it comes to these type of missions but one thing that I don't think we commonly use, is for our helicopter pilots to make a call that the AO is too hot/may not be able to land and bugger off. We more frequently try to force the landing.

I think in some cases, especially say where infantry is surrounded by just woodland or have poor visibility around them, once we are found and if we are in a poor position for helicopter to land, we should also try to get more help/intel from our helicopters to guide us to a position that is more suited for them to land. E.g. "Clearing 500m SE of infantry position, try there". This could be a tricky job for infantry to push to though.

In some missions like to protect VIPs this might not be suitable, of-course.

This is not a bash to yesterday by any means, just thought in-general, Alwarren did a heroic job with the damaged helicopter he was in.

[Varanon]

In this particular case, it might be that the vehicle didn't kill anyone, but I still don't understand the reasoning. The house might be an incentive, and it shouldn't really have collapsed from an RPG-7 backblast, but in general, in such a situation, I would really avoid roads, and that hasn't been the case in almost every playthough of this mission

[Evans]

MAPS (as promised)

First I had one, then I didn't, then I did again and then sputnik gave me another one.

[Alwarren]

One thing I noticed when playing tonight. Don't take this as me trying to blame someone for what happened, I am just pointing out a weakness that I perceived in our way of handling things.

IMO, if infantry is inside a vehicle, the vehicle commander should have the full authority. 

Case in point, we spotted the Challenger on the road and Variable ordered me to let the infantry disembark. I was perplexed at that moment, but it was the wrong decision and I should have overruled it. I could have gone for the cover of the buildings to the right of the road and let infantry disembark there. Instead, we had infantry disembark on the road and someone ran in front of my vehicle. Since I had no idea where the rest of the infantry was, all I could do is stand there, salute Mother Russia for the last time and accept a 120 mm tank shell to my face. 

What should be done in this case is that the vehicle commander (who is the one with the best situational awareness at this point) decides what to do. It should be his call to let infantry disembark or not, and in this case, I would not have done it, especially since the dismounts blocked my vehicle from moving which cost me my virtual life.