Time for real scary stuff. ISIS. Even their children want to kill all infidels. As much as they hate infidels, they got infidel weaponry too... and sunglasses o_O that's made by infidels.
VICE News: The Spread of the Caliphate: The Islamic State:
Brain washing is always so sad :'(
I will not speculate why religions, cults and miths were invented, but is obvious whos using them, we had that in Europe, i hope never again.
Problem is that if we don't change as civilization and culture will always be something else to replace religion... like politics, finances, economics, nationalism, racism, things that will be used by the same greedy for power guys...
People all over need to wake up and use their own brains.
Tho history proved that if you force people to wake up you get the opposite, they have to do it themselves we can only serve as role model, and by "we" i mean individuals not countries or governments.
I really feel sorry that arabian civilization so rich and advanced in the past became subject for abject manipulation but that can happen to any somnambulist, happens all over the world in different ways more or less acceptable.
(08-21-2014, 02:14 AM)Phantom link Wrote: [ -> ]ISIS public execution of American journalist
Don't get me wrong, but this thread is for scary videos, like, you get a big spider crawling up your ass. This isn't what I'd consider "scary", this is showing an innocent man being killed. By rights, videos like this don't even belong on the Internet, graphic or not.
I didn't watch it for that reason. I think it's actually indecent to watch it. I don't know what you think about it, but things like that do not belong on the net, nor in a forum.
(08-21-2014, 10:47 AM)Varanon link Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't watch it for that reason. I think it's actually indecent to watch it. I don't know what you think about it, but things like that do not belong on the net, nor in a forum.
I disagree about that it's indecent to watch it, or that it's not belong on the net. Quite the contrary, actually. such videos should be widespread so everybody should be aware who are the enemies of the free civilization, how sick murderous and dangerous they are. If anything is to be done against those monsters, it will only be after people realize what are we dealing with, and showing such videos, as disgusting as they are, promote that.
(08-21-2014, 11:07 AM)Variable link Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree about that it's indecent to watch it, or that it's not belong on the net. Quite the contrary, actually. such videos should be widespread so everybody should be aware who are the enemies of the free civilization, how sick murderous and dangerous they are. If anything is to be done against those monsters, it will only be after people realize what are we dealing with, and showing such videos, as disgusting as they are, promote that.
I just believe in a kind of "first they came for X, then they came for Y, then they came for you, now they're coming for me" kind of thing. I rather not be ignorant on the subject, I guess some people choose to not watch it since it is disturbing. I just suck it up as disgusting as it is, but to see the type of world we live in. A journalist has no say in what the government can do or not do, yet of all people to be executed is an innocent man and for what purpose. Two wrong makes a right? Making it more graphical makes it righter? They made it personal by doing it the graphic way as well. To see people want to create such a world is an atrocity. Though, media manipulation is also another thing... there's the government's media, and the free citizen journalism stuff as well. Some are real, some are fake, they do recruit via social media too, plenty of ignorant comments you can search for if you go through them. I rather not. Reading up how some young people can be so weak minded and easily join fighters and their "cause" so easily is also scary.
(08-21-2014, 11:07 AM)Variable link Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree about that it's indecent to watch it, or that it's not belong on the net. Quite the contrary, actually. such videos should be widespread so everybody should be aware who are the enemies of the free civilization, how sick murderous and dangerous they are. If anything is to be done against those monsters, it will only be after people realize what are we dealing with, and showing such videos, as disgusting as they are, promote that.
I agree that the news must be spread, but not the pictures.
I would even agree to the pictures if I didn't knew that there is a shit ton of morons jerking off to this, cheering it, or just watching it to say "hey I watched it, dude".
You might see things different, but I think showing the death of people, or dead people, is lowering their dignity. In the town where I live, it was common to "exhibit" people that were recently deceased. I found it disgusting, and when my parents died, I insisted on not exhibiting their bodies.
Don't get me wrong, the world MUST KNOW what is happening.
(08-21-2014, 11:21 AM)Phantom link Wrote: [ -> ]I just believe in a kind of "first they came for X, then they came for Y, then they came for you, now they're coming for me" kind of thing.
I don't. I believe in a "they came for X, we must stop them" kind of way. Because let's see it realistically, will they ever come to Germany ? I don't think so
(08-21-2014, 11:21 AM)Phantom link Wrote: [ -> ]I rather not be ignorant on the subject, I guess some people choose to not watch it since it is disturbing
Ignorant ? Do you think I am ignorant, or want to be ignorant ? Quite the contrary. I read about the Balkan war, I had friends there, I talked to a woman who saw her whole family being murdered.
I've seen people die, in front of my eyes, don't tell me about things that are disturbing to watch.
By all means, this is something that everybody needs to know about. Just about how people learn about it is something we disagree upon.
Where do you draw the line? Do we start publishing videos of traffic accidents with maimed victims in it just for the shock so people realize how dangerous driving is?
Most of the people that watch this video don't watch it because of the man that was murdered, or because of the message it conveys. They watch it for the same reason as they visit websites with this kind of content - they want to see it. You can perfectly well raise awareness for this without showing the act itself. I am willing to bet that a large percentage don't even know who the guy is. Honestly, can anybody tell his name without looking it up? It's James Foley, btw.
What the terrorists do here is instrumentalize the death of a person for their purpose. What people do that spread this kind of video is essentially the same. A man was killed in a bestial and gruesome manner. That is the message that should be spread.
Anyone that needs to see a video of a beheading to know what a beheading is is beyond help anyway.
(08-21-2014, 02:45 PM)Varanon link Wrote: [ -> ]Ignorant ? Do you think I am ignorant, or want to be ignorant ? Quite the contrary. I read about the Balkan war, I had friends there, I talked to a woman who saw her whole family being murdered.
I've seen people die, in front of my eyes, don't tell me about things that are disturbing to watch.
Varanon, I'm positive Phantom was referring himself, not to you.
(08-21-2014, 02:47 PM)Alwarren link Wrote: [ -> ]Where do you draw the line? Do we start publishing videos of traffic accidents with maimed victims in it just for the shock so people realize how dangerous driving is?
Most certainly yes, if it's going to save lives, than by all means, use it. Lives are more important than keeping people illusion of safety. There are already car accident awareness commercials that quite horrific but are highly effective.
(08-21-2014, 02:47 PM)Alwarren link Wrote: [ -> ]Most of the people that watch this video don't watch it because of the man that was murdered, or because of the message it conveys. They watch it for the same reason as they visit websites with this kind of content - they want to see it. You can perfectly well raise awareness for this without showing the act itself. I am willing to bet that a large percentage don't even know who the guy is. Honestly, can anybody tell his name without looking it up? It's James Foley, btw.
Media policy should not be dictated by some douchebags.
(08-21-2014, 02:47 PM)Alwarren link Wrote: [ -> ]What the terrorists do here is instrumentalize the death of a person for their purpose. What people do that spread this kind of video is essentially the same. A man was killed in a bestial and gruesome manner. That is the message that should be spread.
Anyone that needs to see a video of a beheading to know what a beheading is is beyond help anyway.
There is a big difference between knowing that some shit happens and seeing it. The impact is hugely different. And if that impact is going to be what makes the difference between indifference and action, then I say shove it infront of people faces. For Heaven's sake, there are media campaigns to remove the execution video from the web. These people must be out of their senses - a colleague of theirs was beheaded, and they want to remove what most likely can have a tremendous contribution to governmental action induced by public opinion. We have to consider the greater good here.
(08-21-2014, 04:22 PM)Variable link Wrote: [ -> ]Most certainly yes, if it's going to save lives, than by all means, use it. Lives are more important than keeping people illusion of safety. There are already car accident awareness commercials that quite horrific but are highly effective.
I do not think it will change anything. People have their set mind. They put pictures of damaged organs on cirgarette packets here, and it hasn't done anything. What helps is raising awareness by educating people. I don't believe that you can shock anyone into knowledge.
Quote:Media policy should not be dictated by some douchebags.
Media policy is a weird thing. You would think that the job of the media is to inform, to enlighten, but that isn't their idea. Media is selling a product. The one that can package the product with the most colorful tassels usually wins.
IMO, news media has developed into a despicable business. There are a number of exceptions for sure, but by and large, the news media has devolved into the kind of machinery that has only two major agendas: Profit, and forming political opinion. I find it scary to think that a large part of media companies are owned by single individuals. People like Murdoch have a vast influence on public opinion. Berlusconi in Italy used his media empire effectively for his political goals.
In a lot of sense, media has come the same way as the Catholic church: there are some within the structure that do their work because they firmly believe in what they are doing to be the right thing, but the major part of the organizations have ulterior motives.
Quote:There is a big difference between knowing that some shit happens and seeing it. The impact is hugely different. And if that impact is going to be what makes the difference between indifference and action, then I say shove it infront of people faces.
That's the point. It won't work. People that aren't understanding the words will not understand the images either. The only people attracted by that are the sensationalists, those people that need to have the next season of The Walking Dead more bloody than the previous one because there must be "an improvement". And besides, what do people see? An arab killing someone. Do you REALLY think that anybody will be more interested in the backgrounds? That anyone seeing this will start to give it thought other than "Kill the ragheads"? I sincerely doubt that.
Quote: For Heaven's sake, there are media campaigns to remove the execution video from the web. These people must be out of their senses - a colleague of theirs was beheaded, and they want to remove what most likely can have a tremendous contribution to governmental action induced by public opinion. We have to consider the greater good here.
There are two sides to that story. You have to agree that the spreading of this video was one of the goals of the people that commuted the crime. By circulating it, you do them a favor. Most people will react in one of two ways to this video: They will hate Arabs, or they will fear Arabs. The latter is what the terrorists want; the former isn't a good thing either.
I also don't believe that circulating the video will contribute to public opinion. The average person is dumb. Most Americans do not even know were Iraq is. Videos like this will not educate them.
I don't think this video is good for public because its shock value does not help you tackle problem as a person who uses reason, instead it produces emotions and desire for revenge and in a sense it makes you more similar to the executioner. Watching the video just sparks more hate and can produce acts of violence of stupid and mentally unstable individuals who, chance is, already have picture of all Arabs as intolerant religious fanatics killing everyone who is different.
It is against human dignity to show such videos. Think of showing any kind of rape video to the public, what effect will it do? Rapists would rape anyway because they have no emotions and empathy towards other humans. All it would do is produce hatred and acts of lynching of imagined or real rapists walking around.Â
Someone here mentioned Balkan Wars. Well, here's is how volunteers and general public was recruited for war. Each night during prime time, state TV would show videos of civilian victims. It was a snuff movie every night, with bodies disfigured beyond recognition, mutilated, beheaded, and it produced exactly the reaction that government wanted: desire for revenge and lack of compassion for other peoples, it created an image of entire other nations as being murderous sub-humans unworthy of human treatment. It made people more willing to enlist and be prepared to commit similar atrocities out of revenge creating never ending circle of violence. You allow yourself to treat other as an animal or worse because you deny his humanity. Victims for war were used throughout for purpose of mobilization. We all here well remember those evening prime time news on state TV as orvellian "five minutes of hate". It made great damage for a chnces that things will get to normal when it comes to relations between peoples here, people don't forget images that easily and thus peace process in Balkans is taking very long time. Even now, some people cannot think of members of other nations involved in wars other than as "murderers".
I'm with AL and Misha here, shocking images and videos only satisfy the voyeurism aspect of our brain.
I have to admit tho that for some people could work as a perspective changer, in which way... depends on person.
This could be a long discussion about attention feeding/ manipulation /empowerment/ perception/ manifestation/ collective conscience so i'll will stop here.
(08-21-2014, 05:51 PM)Misha link Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think this video is good for public because its shock value does not help you tackle problem as a person who uses reason, instead it produces emotions and desire for revenge and in a sense it makes you more similar to the executioner. Watching the video just sparks more hate and can produce acts of violence of stupid and mentally unstable individuals who, chance is, already have picture of all Arabs as intolerant religious fanatics killing everyone who is different.
It is against human dignity to show such videos. Think of showing any kind of rape video to the public, what effect will it do? Rapists would rape anyway because they have no emotions and empathy towards other humans. All it would do is produce hatred and acts of lynching of imagined or real rapists walking around.Â
Someone here mentioned Balkan Wars. Well, here's is how volunteers and general public was recruited for war. Each night during prime time, state TV would show videos of civilian victims. It was a snuff movie every night, with bodies disfigured beyond recognition, mutilated, beheaded, and it produced exactly the reaction that government wanted: desire for revenge and lack of compassion for other peoples, it created an image of entire other nations as being murderous sub-humans unworthy of human treatment. It made people more willing to enlist and be prepared to commit similar atrocities out of revenge creating never ending circle of violence. You allow yourself to treat other as an animal or worse because you deny his humanity. Victims for war were used throughout for purpose of mobilization. We all here well remember those evening prime time news on state TV as orvellian "five minutes of hate". It made great damage for a chnces that things will get to normal when it comes to relations between peoples here, people don't forget images that easily and thus peace process in Balkans is taking very long time. Even now, some people cannot think of members of other nations involved in wars other than as "murderers".
Of course the context is important. Not any horrible video is public worthy. The former Yugoslavia is an example where the use of horrible imagery was misused. However now, as I see it, there's a sleepy world that needs a wake-up call. The end game is that as more people will be exposed to it, more people will support action. Sorry, but that's more important than the points you guys raise.
(though... snakes can't close their eyes)