01-06-2014, 05:13 AM
Hey comrades, I decided to hypothesize about stealth and Arma so I was freewriting on some word doc and will paste it here. It's the theory of what I came up with about stealth and Arma and how it goes. Feel free to post your opinions, insights, critics, and such about what you think on how mechanics of stealth currently work.
Regarding stealth in Arma, I pretty much came to this for mission designs. Iâll address stealth kills as the very first thing to address since, it doesnât work and missions designed around it wonât work.
Stealth Kills: Donât even bother. The likelihood of you scoring a stealth kill without being detected is very low and even lower in Arma 3 than Arma 2.
You might get away with one guy in Arma 2 since you can one shot kill a guy with a silence weapon. In Arma 3, because of AI body armor, even a 7.62 round isnât going to kill a guy in one, but more like 2. Since you fired 2 instead of 1, you can get spotted easier (I find stealth better in 2 than 3 for this purpose, but if mission is designed by evasion instead of stealth kills, it wouldnât matter unless oneâs AI have greater x-ray vision).
Basically, I can ungroup the AI so they wonât be automatically in the same group and know that something is wrong. During a patrol, if I drop the AI, the AI who donât even have line of sight with the patrol on top of the tower are now alerted. They donât know where I am, but they know a shooter with silence weapon is around. On default, AIs are on AWARE mode. When theyâre alerted, they switch to COMBAT/DANGER mode. I check for COMBAT/DANGER mode to raise alarms.
Now I guess we can say that silence weapons are still loud and people will still hear them and be alerted. Thatâs possible, but funny thing is, I decide to shoot light bulbs instead of people for the next test. Thereâs a guard patrolling and the other patrol I drop would be farther away than the 4 lights up on the tower. Of course, thereâs always a chance I would alert someone from shooting light bulbs (I did one time but itâs not as common as shooting patrols). For the most part, I was pretty successful. I took down 4 lights and the AI doesnât even have a clue that Iâm firing silence weapon at light bulbs. None of them were alerted.
Reason why is Iâm not sure, but I will guess that if you shoot another AI and drop them, grouped or not, another AI will detect his death somehow even without line of sight. Maybe itâs the radius. I would be more successful in Stealth Kills without alerting farther off guards if theyâre really really far off and isolated. The question would be how far, but then, why would it be that far. Overall, it would be pretty much stealth killing in an almost isolated town if I design a mission that way. In such case, since the density is so low, you can might as well sneak pass them even easier.
Ironically, I find that you have better luck stealth killing a lightbulb than a human. So Iâd go with, your bullets more well spent on a light bulb than a person if the mission have some sort of alarm system.
DETECTION SYSTEM: If you use the trigger âDETECTED BY <insert side here>â, youâll pretty much be detected in an instant. Even if the enemies did not see you. For example if I remember correctly on my Black Hole mission on Namalsk. There were times I remember that the NACs without NV Goggles spotted us and the question I have is âno oneâs alerted, no one saw us, and how are we spottedâ. I think the âDETECTED BYâ trigger is kind of broken sometimes. The moment someone is alerted, the alarm is pretty much off, even if you silence them before anything is leaked its already too late even if you put a timeout timer.
Another method I can think of checking of enemiesâ behavior. I name certain guards and check if their behaviors are COMBAT. If they are, I put a hint that a guard is alerted and you pretty much have to silent him before another guard is alerted (usually its already too late since once you attempt stealth kill, you end up alerting more people <check back on the stealth kill section>). Basically this method works with a trigger with condition
to make sure the unit is aware and alive. I then put a timeout timer before
to trigger the alarm. If heâs dead, the alarm wonât trigger. I also add a trigger to make sure that if enemy fire their guns, alarm are off.
I find the second method better, but the problem is, stealth kill doesnât work (unless itâs a light bulb you killed).
Design Choice: Overall, I think the best approach for a stealth mission is one where you donât shoot any soldiers at all (except light bulbs I guess since I find that the chance of you getting caught from shooting lights is much lower than shooting people). In this case, the design must not have a soldier guarding the objective at all, but have them all patrolling around, but possible to all be avoided through hiding and maneuvering.
If thereâs an alarm system and it has to have stealth kill involved, most likely it wonât work out since youâll get detected trying. So if thereâs an alarm, the best approach would be a mission where you donât shoot people (unless the objective was keep sneaking until you get to a tank to steal and then the reinforcements canât handle the tank then the alarm goes off but youâre already in a tank for example).
If thereâs no alarm, you can pretty much pick enemies off from afar with an MK17 SD or something as they run around like headless chicken without NV Goggles (pretty much forget stealth and camp on a hill picking enemies off).
Long story short, no shooting.
- So then whatâs the point of having guns?
If the mission is basically some civilian and just silenced pistols or smaller arms. Either emergencies or taking out light bulbs. If you have optics and TWS and such, then so you can scan a wider radius.
Design Choice #2: Another approach I can think of would be blending in with the sound of two warring sidesâ firefight. In this case scenario, it would be ok to shoot. Silence weapon or not, it doesnât matter too much as long as you try to keep a low profile and only shoot when must.
Scenarios I can think of this would be escape a town under battle between 2 clashing sides (but thatâs more of an escape mission than a stealth mission). One side occupy the town youâre trapped in, the other is attacking. You use the attackerâs as an advantage in the midst of chaos you escape. Well, everyone is your enemy pretty much.
Another scenario I can think of would be stealing a cache in a town in the middle of 2 clashing factions. I might consider it more of snatch and grab. I donât know if I can call it stealth (well I guess if you have some silence weapon sneaking under the covers and chaos of firefights that might work).
Another scenario I also thought of for this design choice would be 2 warring factions and you must eliminate both of their generals and then escape through the midst of chaos or activate a bomb to blow the whole place up and leave.
Summary of Design Choices: Design Choice #1 I would say would be the ideal Stealth Stealth scenario I guess. As long as no stealth kills are necessary and it is not necessary to shoot anyone but simply trying to avoid everyone as you sneak through all of them since stealth kills donât work and alarm systems are presented. Thereâs the more move slow and try to keep quiet.
Design Choice #2 I would say would not be the typical stealth mission where you avoid shooting all the time. I think #2 has more options of approach on either letting the enemy duke it all out or rush in snatch and grab. I guess options of approach can vary since its already in the heat of battle and youâre just using the chaos to cover yourself. Iâm not sure if this would be called âStealthâ, but youâre pretty much using chaos as your cloak instead of dead silence.
Regarding stealth in Arma, I pretty much came to this for mission designs. Iâll address stealth kills as the very first thing to address since, it doesnât work and missions designed around it wonât work.
Stealth Kills: Donât even bother. The likelihood of you scoring a stealth kill without being detected is very low and even lower in Arma 3 than Arma 2.
You might get away with one guy in Arma 2 since you can one shot kill a guy with a silence weapon. In Arma 3, because of AI body armor, even a 7.62 round isnât going to kill a guy in one, but more like 2. Since you fired 2 instead of 1, you can get spotted easier (I find stealth better in 2 than 3 for this purpose, but if mission is designed by evasion instead of stealth kills, it wouldnât matter unless oneâs AI have greater x-ray vision).
Basically, I can ungroup the AI so they wonât be automatically in the same group and know that something is wrong. During a patrol, if I drop the AI, the AI who donât even have line of sight with the patrol on top of the tower are now alerted. They donât know where I am, but they know a shooter with silence weapon is around. On default, AIs are on AWARE mode. When theyâre alerted, they switch to COMBAT/DANGER mode. I check for COMBAT/DANGER mode to raise alarms.
Now I guess we can say that silence weapons are still loud and people will still hear them and be alerted. Thatâs possible, but funny thing is, I decide to shoot light bulbs instead of people for the next test. Thereâs a guard patrolling and the other patrol I drop would be farther away than the 4 lights up on the tower. Of course, thereâs always a chance I would alert someone from shooting light bulbs (I did one time but itâs not as common as shooting patrols). For the most part, I was pretty successful. I took down 4 lights and the AI doesnât even have a clue that Iâm firing silence weapon at light bulbs. None of them were alerted.
Reason why is Iâm not sure, but I will guess that if you shoot another AI and drop them, grouped or not, another AI will detect his death somehow even without line of sight. Maybe itâs the radius. I would be more successful in Stealth Kills without alerting farther off guards if theyâre really really far off and isolated. The question would be how far, but then, why would it be that far. Overall, it would be pretty much stealth killing in an almost isolated town if I design a mission that way. In such case, since the density is so low, you can might as well sneak pass them even easier.
Ironically, I find that you have better luck stealth killing a lightbulb than a human. So Iâd go with, your bullets more well spent on a light bulb than a person if the mission have some sort of alarm system.
DETECTION SYSTEM: If you use the trigger âDETECTED BY <insert side here>â, youâll pretty much be detected in an instant. Even if the enemies did not see you. For example if I remember correctly on my Black Hole mission on Namalsk. There were times I remember that the NACs without NV Goggles spotted us and the question I have is âno oneâs alerted, no one saw us, and how are we spottedâ. I think the âDETECTED BYâ trigger is kind of broken sometimes. The moment someone is alerted, the alarm is pretty much off, even if you silence them before anything is leaked its already too late even if you put a timeout timer.
Another method I can think of checking of enemiesâ behavior. I name certain guards and check if their behaviors are COMBAT. If they are, I put a hint that a guard is alerted and you pretty much have to silent him before another guard is alerted (usually its already too late since once you attempt stealth kill, you end up alerting more people <check back on the stealth kill section>). Basically this method works with a trigger with condition
Code:
(behaviour unitname == ""COMBAT"" && alive unitname && alive alarm)to make sure the unit is aware and alive. I then put a timeout timer before
Code:
deletevehicle alarmto trigger the alarm. If heâs dead, the alarm wonât trigger. I also add a trigger to make sure that if enemy fire their guns, alarm are off.
I find the second method better, but the problem is, stealth kill doesnât work (unless itâs a light bulb you killed).
Design Choice: Overall, I think the best approach for a stealth mission is one where you donât shoot any soldiers at all (except light bulbs I guess since I find that the chance of you getting caught from shooting lights is much lower than shooting people). In this case, the design must not have a soldier guarding the objective at all, but have them all patrolling around, but possible to all be avoided through hiding and maneuvering.
If thereâs an alarm system and it has to have stealth kill involved, most likely it wonât work out since youâll get detected trying. So if thereâs an alarm, the best approach would be a mission where you donât shoot people (unless the objective was keep sneaking until you get to a tank to steal and then the reinforcements canât handle the tank then the alarm goes off but youâre already in a tank for example).
If thereâs no alarm, you can pretty much pick enemies off from afar with an MK17 SD or something as they run around like headless chicken without NV Goggles (pretty much forget stealth and camp on a hill picking enemies off).
Long story short, no shooting.
- So then whatâs the point of having guns?
If the mission is basically some civilian and just silenced pistols or smaller arms. Either emergencies or taking out light bulbs. If you have optics and TWS and such, then so you can scan a wider radius.
Design Choice #2: Another approach I can think of would be blending in with the sound of two warring sidesâ firefight. In this case scenario, it would be ok to shoot. Silence weapon or not, it doesnât matter too much as long as you try to keep a low profile and only shoot when must.
Scenarios I can think of this would be escape a town under battle between 2 clashing sides (but thatâs more of an escape mission than a stealth mission). One side occupy the town youâre trapped in, the other is attacking. You use the attackerâs as an advantage in the midst of chaos you escape. Well, everyone is your enemy pretty much.
Another scenario I can think of would be stealing a cache in a town in the middle of 2 clashing factions. I might consider it more of snatch and grab. I donât know if I can call it stealth (well I guess if you have some silence weapon sneaking under the covers and chaos of firefights that might work).
Another scenario I also thought of for this design choice would be 2 warring factions and you must eliminate both of their generals and then escape through the midst of chaos or activate a bomb to blow the whole place up and leave.
Summary of Design Choices: Design Choice #1 I would say would be the ideal Stealth Stealth scenario I guess. As long as no stealth kills are necessary and it is not necessary to shoot anyone but simply trying to avoid everyone as you sneak through all of them since stealth kills donât work and alarm systems are presented. Thereâs the more move slow and try to keep quiet.
Design Choice #2 I would say would not be the typical stealth mission where you avoid shooting all the time. I think #2 has more options of approach on either letting the enemy duke it all out or rush in snatch and grab. I guess options of approach can vary since its already in the heat of battle and youâre just using the chaos to cover yourself. Iâm not sure if this would be called âStealthâ, but youâre pretty much using chaos as your cloak instead of dead silence.